Former Vice President Mike Pence, who visited Dorchester’s Edward M. Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate on Wednesday afternoon for a discussion focused on “civility” in the nation’s political discourse, denounced violence and extremism on both sides of the American divide during an hour-long discussion with Meghan McCain, daughter of the late Arizona Senator and host of the “Citizen McCain” podcast.
The event, which was open to the public, drew a crowd of more than 200 people to the Columbia Point facility. It was the latest in a series of forums at the EMK Institute that organizers hope may encourage more constructive dialogue in the spirit of the late “lion of the Senate”— Ted Kennedy— for which it is named.
“Never before, than in recent times, has this country been more divided, and is the notion of bipartisanship more important than it is today,” said Bruce Percelay, chairman of the Board of the EMK Institute. “Our institute stands for many things, but most importantly, it is the right of people to express differences of opinions, different viewpoints, and to have a freedom of independent thought without fearing for their lives, without fearing for retribution, and without concern as to its impact on them and the country itself.”
Pence, who served as vice-president to President Donald J. Trump during his first term in office, addressed McCain’s questions just hours into a shut-down of the federal government— the first since January 2019.
“What’s different about this time is that now the argument is not over one party wanting to spend more and another party wanting to cut spending, but rather, it’s now a difference between the Republican party wants to add $2 trillion to the national debt and the Democratic Party wants to add $3 trillion to the national debt,” said Pence. “It’s disappointing that people could not find a way to move forward to fund vital programs that people depend on.”
Pence believes the duration of any shutdown will largely depend on Democratic leadership. In the meantime, he wants to see Republicans stand firm on issues like Obamacare subsidies, he said.
“However the shutdown shakes out, my hope is that Washington, D.C., will start to come to terms with our national debt and bring forward solutions,” said Pence.
While the shutdown was breaking news, other recent events drove the discussion, including the murders of Charlie Kirk, Minneasota lawmaker Melissa Hortman and her husband, and other attacks on political leaders, including Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro and President Trump himself.
“Violence is always wrong,” Pence said. “Political violence must be universally condemned.”
“Heartsick” by the murder of Kirk— “a good and decent and honorable young man who literally gave his life championing freedom of debate on college campuses”—Pence added that “we must resist the temptation of putting America on trial” every time something like this happens.
Pence, asked about his view of pardons given to people convicted of assaulting Capitol police officers and storming the Capitol building on Jan. 6, 2021, said he disagreed with the Trump administration, adding: “People who assaulted police officers should never have been pardoned.”
Pence — who was himself a target of a mob on Jan. 6— said he would like to see “reforms that make justice more swift and more certain” without compromising due process for the accused.
Pence said he had not been in the actual Senate Chamber since Jan. 6 when he was rushed away by a security detail minutes ahead of a mob, some of whom chanted “hang Mike Pence.”
“By God’s grace I did my duty on Jan. 6 to see the peaceful transfer of power in the United States,” he said.
Later, when questioned about gun reform, Pence said that he cherishes the Second Amendment as much as the First and that he does not want to address issues of violence by “eroding the liberties of law-abiding Americans.”
In a question to Pence, McCain claimed a recent survey indicates 26 percent of liberals under 45 years-old see political violence as sometimes justifiable—compared to 7 percent of conservatives.
Pence said that should be “a wake-up call for my friends in the Democratic party and leaders on the progressive left in this country.”
But he also struck a more optimistic tone.
“Our politics is more divided than any time in my lifetime, but I’m not convinced the American people are as divided as our politics,” Pence said. “When you go 15 miles outside of Washington, D.C., the people in this country actually get along pretty well. Americans find a way to work together. We got to have a government as good as our people.”
In Pence’s view, the second Trump administration, compared to the first, isn’t all that different.
“The leadership style the president has, the major decisions are made by one person, the president of the United States, and I would expect that’s still the case.”
